Transcript of Wendy Fisher’s Interview

Veteran news leader Wendy Fisher spent 34 years at ABC News, rising from overnight shifts to senior roles at the center of some of the biggest stories of our time. She sat down for an interview on Tutors, Mentors, and the City, hosted by Kevin “Dotcom” Brown through The City Tutors, to talk about building a career in journalism, working through the Trump years, the Me Too era, and what advice she gives the next generation.

Kevin “Dotcom” Brown:

When people ask, “Who are you,” how do you answer that?

Wendy Fisher:

Oh my goodness, who am I?

First of all, I am a mom. I have three grown children and I live in New York City, in Greenwich Village.

Professionally, I worked at ABC News for 34 years, which is a really long time. I walked in the door when I was 25, in 1989. I thought I was very smart, but I really did not know anything about anything.

The first couple of years were about learning the company. Who was who, what everyone did, how television journalism really worked. I did whatever anyone told me to do. I worked very hard and I worked some really tough shifts, including overnights for two and a half years.

Over time I learned about reporting, reporters, television, journalism, how to work in teams, how to get yelled at and not yell back. I had many different jobs there and slowly climbed the ladder until I had some of the best jobs I could have imagined. I was able to really use my brain, people listened to me, and I had a great career.

Kevin:

When you are moving up the ladder inside one organization, how does that actually happen? Are you constantly applying for openings, or are people tapping you on the shoulder and saying, “Come up here with me”?

Wendy:

It happens both ways.

In the beginning, when you are junior, you usually have to apply. You hear about an opening or someone tells you there is an opening, you write an email, you update your resume, you put yourself forward. If you are lucky, you have made enough of an impression that they remember you. They think, “Oh, you are the one who did that project,” or “You are the one who handled that situation.”

Later in your career, there can be promotions in place. In my case, I had one senior job that I formally applied for, and two where I was promoted in place. That happens when you are doing a very good job and growing with the role. The job evolves, and the title and compensation catch up to the reality of the work you are already doing.

So in my time it really did happen both ways.

Kevin:

ABC News is huge. Early on, when you moved up, did that mean going to completely new teams and unfamiliar people each time?

Wendy:

At first, yes. In my early roles, each promotion meant a new area, a new group of people, sometimes a different location.

Over time, as I figured out what kind of role I really wanted, I settled into a particular part of the organization. I stayed in that general area and moved up inside that “vertical.” I found that valuable. I had grown up inside that division, I knew it deeply, and I had done different levels of jobs. That meant I could really help other people in that part of the organization.

Other people take different paths. Some move across the organization, into completely different functions. That was not my path. Mine was depth in one vertical, not breadth across all of them, and I think that became part of my value.

Kevin:

You were in leadership through several very different presidencies. From a news perspective, was there a substantial difference in covering presidents like Barack Obama, Donald Trump, and now Joe Biden?

Wendy:

Yes. It is no surprise that the Trump era threw the media into a tailspin.

This is not about which side anyone is on. It is about norms. He did not follow the norms that presidents and presidential candidates had followed for decades. That meant the way we had always covered the presidency no longer worked.

There was also the question of truth. You suddenly had to verify everything in a very different way. Systems were created just to vet his statements. “What did he say? Is it true? How do we know it is true?”

I remember very clearly the day after his inauguration. The crowd size was disputed. You could show a photograph of the crowd and be told, “No, that is not what it was.” That moment was very telling. It signaled that everything, including clear evidence in front of you, could be contested.

Covering him required more people, more layers, and more time. Standard operating procedures for covering the White House had to be thrown out and rebuilt. On top of that, the media became “the enemy of the people.” That made covering him physically and emotionally difficult. Security became a real concern in some places.

At the same time, attention on the media soared. Ratings went up. Subscriptions went up. People were reading and watching more. So there was a commercial benefit too.

Covering Obama was very different. For many people in the mainstream media, his election felt like an extraordinary moment in American history. Not for all Americans, because we live in a divided country, but for many. In terms of day-to-day coverage, he was a traditional president with a traditional White House and traditional advisers. It was not easy, nothing at that level is easy, but it followed familiar patterns. Trump did not.

Kevin:

The show The Morning Show dramatizes sexual harassment and misconduct in broadcast news. You were working in that world long before Me Too. How accurate is that portrayal?

Wendy:

News divisions, up until Me Too, were largely what people imagine. They were male dominated, with a lot of yelling and screaming, very long hours, lots of time alone with senior men, and very little accountability.

Anchors and top talent often had big personalities and bigger egos. It was a “boys’ club.” Complaints were not always followed up on. There was bullying. It was not an easy environment, especially for women and people who did not fit the dominant mold.

I did not personally experience sexual harassment, and I did not witness the worst behaviors that later came to light, but the culture those stories describe absolutely existed. That world was very real.

Since Me Too and after the murder of George Floyd, a lot has changed. Not everything is perfect, but newsrooms today are more diverse and there are more women in the room. HR departments are bigger and more involved in behavior and hiring. Some people feel the pendulum may have swung too far. Others say it has not gone far enough. But the issues the country has been grappling with have absolutely played out inside news organizations.

Kevin:

Where did you grow up and how did your early life prepare you for this career?

Wendy:

I was born in New York City, on 106th and Broadway on the Upper West Side. I am a New Yorker. I went to private school in the city and then to Amherst College in Massachusetts.

Amherst gave me a fantastic education. It taught me to think, read, write, challenge ideas. I am grateful for that every day. I did not have as much fun in college as some people do, but academically it was wonderful.

I had no idea what I wanted to do when I graduated. I wanted to speak French and go to France, so that is what I did. Later I went to NYU and got a master’s in French studies, then went back to France and got another master’s. I was good at studying and I kept going.

Then I had to get a job. I asked myself, what do I actually like? I knew I was very curious. I loved reading the newspaper and learning about the world. That eventually led me to ABC News.

Journalism is the perfect home for curiosity. The main requirement is that you are interested in other people and other things. You have to want to listen and learn. All the skills I picked up in school listening, writing, reading, arguing, thinking, staying curious ended up being very useful.

Kevin:

You mentioned your two master’s degrees. Why stop there and not go for a PhD?

Wendy:

A PhD is very different from a master’s. A master’s often means classes, seminars, discussions. A PhD is long periods of original research, mostly on your own. You are in the library, you are writing, and you are trying to produce something that no one has done before.

I am a social person. I liked being in class and talking to people. I did not want to spend four or five more years alone in a library. So I made a conscious decision not to do it.

My husband has a PhD. I watched that path up close. It is a great path for some people. It was not what I wanted for myself.

Kevin:

Did your French ever help your work at ABC News?

Wendy:

Yes, it did.

Whenever there were stories in France or other French-speaking countries, it was helpful. I could talk to people, read local coverage, understand context, and advise colleagues. Other people speak French, of course, but it was still useful.

I tell everyone that knowing another language is a gift. It gives you access to another culture and another way of thinking. You cannot fully know a people if you cannot speak to them in their own language.

Kevin:

You were at ABC News through some of the biggest events of our lifetime. What was the most impactful story you worked through?

Wendy:

There are many, but I would say COVID and the Boston Marathon bombing stand out.

COVID was the most impactful and the hardest. It was unprecedented. There was no muscle memory. You could not say, “This is like that other thing we covered.”

Logistically, it was extremely difficult. Emotionally, it was a lot to process. We were trying to cover what was happening to the country and to the world while it was also happening to us and our families. There was so much uncertainty. No one knew when it would end or how to talk about it in a way that helped people.

The Boston Marathon bombing was also deeply shocking and frightening. Certain stories just stay with you.

There were many others. The war in Ukraine, devastating hurricanes, mass shootings. The mass shootings are emotionally the hardest. Those stories never leave you.

Kevin:

When we met, there was a young woman who was very intent on talking with you. She wanted ten minutes to pick your brain. What advice do you give someone like her, who wants to go into journalism?

Wendy:

I think she is my mentee now, which I am happy about.

Journalism is a noble career. It is also changing constantly. For anyone considering it, I would start with this: you really have to be curious. If you are not genuinely curious about other people and their stories, journalism is going to be very hard for you.

You have to be able to keep your eyes and ears open, to listen more than you talk, and to try to walk in someone else’s shoes.

In terms of practical entry points, there are many paths. You might need to leave New York if you want to be a reporter or a television correspondent. You may need to start in a very small market or in a role that is not your dream job. That is fine. No job is too small at the beginning.

There is no single ladder. Some people go to journalism school and still start at the bottom. The key is to be flexible. Be willing to try different roles, writing online, producing, local TV, whatever opens the door. You will not get the exact job you imagine right away. You will get the job you get, and you can grow from there.

Kevin:

At ABC News specifically, is it more about TV skills or journalism skills? What do you actually need to move up?

Wendy:

Television news is both journalism and production.

In a place like ABC News, there are reporters and correspondents working on the journalism. There are also producers, editors, camera operators, engineers, graphics teams, logistics teams. It takes a lot of different people doing very different jobs to put a broadcast on the air.

So it is fundamentally journalism, but it is also technology, engineering, and operations. Different roles require different skills, but they are all part of the same enterprise.

Kevin:

You were there during the decline of print newspapers and the rise of digital. How did that shift feel from the inside?

Wendy:

When I started in 1989, newspapers were still dominant. Executives wanted several papers delivered to their homes every morning. Making sure the right people got the right papers was literally one of my early tasks.

Then the digital revolution hit. ABCNews.com grew. The organization had to invest heavily in digital just like the newspapers did. Now everyone also has to think about streaming, because that is where audiences go.

During my career, every method of delivering news changed. From paper to television to websites to phones and streaming platforms. The core mission stayed the same, but the formats and business models changed constantly.

Kevin:

Let me ask about plagiarism and ethics. When a journalist gets caught plagiarizing or fabricating, is their career over?

Wendy:

It depends on the severity.

There have been very famous cases where journalists consistently fabricated stories. In those cases, it is very hard to come back. Your credibility is gone.

If someone plagiarizes a small part of a story, the consequences might be different, but it is still serious. Like most mistakes, the outcome depends on the gravity of the error, the pattern, and how the person and the organization respond.

But plagiarism is not a small thing. In journalism, your credibility is your currency.

Kevin:

For young people starting their careers, in any field, not just journalism, what is your best advice?

Wendy:

I do not have a secret trick for getting a job. You apply, you network, you try hard.

Once you have a job, there are some basics that matter a lot. Work hard. Be willing. Never underestimate enthusiasm. Bosses notice the person who says, “Sure, I will do it,” with a good attitude, and then does it well.

Be a good colleague. Be friendly, respectful, and reliable. Those qualities carry you a long way. You can be a genius, but if you are very difficult to work with, your path will be harder.

If someone asks you to get coffee, get the coffee and get the order right. It is not the worst thing anyone has ever been asked to do. Take pride in doing whatever is in front of you well.

People ask, “How do I get promoted?” The answer is usually, “Do the job you have now really, really well.” If you do that, opportunities are much more likely to come.

Kevin:

Wendy, thank you. Your journey is impressive and I know any mentee is lucky to have you in their corner.

Wendy:

Thank you. It was a pleasure to talk with you.